In This Story
In an era of political division, two former Virginia governors prove that collaboration and integrity still have a place in leadership. Welcome to the inaugural episode of the Schar School's official podcast, "Policy and Governance Perspectives!" In this compelling discussion, we have the privilege of sitting down with two extraordinary public servants and former governors of Virginia, Robert McDonnell and Terry McAuliffe. Join us as they set aside partisan hats to share invaluable lessons learned from their time in office, offering strategic advice for future leaders, and tackling the most pressing challenges and opportunities facing the Commonwealth. From budget complexities and legislative relationships to economic growth and the future of higher education, this conversation reveals the shared commitment to public service that transcends political divides and defines "the Virginia way."
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The Virginia Way: Bipartisan Lessons In Leadership And Governance With Gov. Robert McDonnell And Gov. Terry McAuliffe
I'm Dr. David Ramadan, and this is Policy and Governance Perspectives, the official show of the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University. I had the honor of recording this inaugural episode with two former governors of Virginia, Bob McDonnell and Terry McAuliffe, both now colleagues of mine here in Mason, and both still deeply engaged in public life and leadership.
This episode is a powerful one. Both governors offer candid, practical advice to Virginia's next governor and the General Assembly. They unpack the complexity of the Commonwealth's budget, reflect on policy, not politics, and even take a moment to recognize their successor, Governor Northam. Yes, you'd want to stay for the end, read what they had to say about each other, and the one policy challenge they believe every Virginian should take on in the year ahead. Here's a brief introduction.
Governor McDonnell served as Virginia's 71st governor from 2010 to 2014. Prior to that, he was Attorney General, a longtime member of the House of Delegates and a career Army officer, retiring as a lieutenant colonel. Nowadays, he teaches law and government and leads consulting and legal work while serving as a distinguished professor at multiple institutions, including the Schar School.
Governor McAuliffe served as the 72nd governor from 2014 to 2018. A lifelong entrepreneur and national political leader, he previously chaired the Democratic National Committee and led major infrastructure, economic development, and civil rights initiatives during his term. He now serves as distinguished visiting professor at the Schar School and remains an active voice in public policy and service. Now on to this episode.
Your Excellencies, welcome to the inaugural episode of the Schar School's official show, Policy and Governance Perspectives. It's a privilege to sit down with two extraordinary public servants and now colleagues. It was my honor to serve with both of you, my first term in the Virginia House of Delegates was with you, Governor McDonnell, and my second term was with you, Governor McAuliffe.
I'm proud of my personal friendship with both of you, but on this show, and since this is the Schar School's official show, not the David Ramadan show, I will put personal relationships aside and I will address you as protocol states, Your Excellency or Governor, not by first name. Your Excellencies, I'm asking you to put aside partisan hats and focus on what unites, rather than divides, governance policy and the future of Virginia.
Advice For A New Governor (Day After Election Day)
I'd like to explore with you lessons learned from your experiences, what both of you see as the most pressing challenges and opportunities facing the Commonwealth. Since Virginia is about to elect a new governor in a few weeks, I’ll ask for your strategic advice to the next governor, regardless of party, about how to lead with vision, pragmatism, and integrity. Let's begin. Setting aside party labels. If you were advising a new governor of any party, what three things would you advise them to do the day after election day? The 71st Governor of Virginia, Governor McDonnell, you go first.
Thanks, Professor Ramadan. It’s great to be here with my friend Governor Terry McAuliffe and you to discuss these important issues facing our Commonwealth. It's been said as Virginia goes, so goes the nation. We've been setting the example for a couple of hundred years, mostly good. I appreciate you having us on so we can talk to the people about our ideas on this.
An honor and a pleasure.
First, I'd say for both governors, neither of whom have had a full career in government, but have some government experience, is to say get up to speed on the budget. Money is policy. Money sets the priorities for the people. Get in the weeds and understand the budget of Virginia in and out, because your predecessor, governor Youngkin, has put in a budget, and you've got to be the one, in very short order, if you want to put your stamp on the initial session of the general assembly to put the amendments in.
Number two, and probably actually more important, is get to know the key decision makers in the legislature. In fact, meet with every one of them if you can. Between the time you get elected and the time, two and a half months later, when you start the session, get to know all the legislators. Ask them what's important to them. Ask them what their priorities are for the session. See if you can find common ground with them.
After you've done that, see if they'll work with you on the big things that you promised during the campaign that are important you think to, not only to you, but more importantly, to the people statewide, and find the common ground. Thirdly is set a tone for cooperation, focusing on the big stuff that Virginia cares about. For me, and I think for Governor McAuliffe, during our terms, we try to create more jobs, more opportunity, more capital investment more business-friendly rules and regulations so that entrepreneurs can start new businesses.
Big companies can expand companies from all over the world, and all over the country can come and plant their flag in Virginia. If you do those three things right, you're going to be off to a good start managing the budget, managing the finances, creating growth in your state. You'll be well respected out of the blocks, if you can do that.
Thank you, governor. The 72nd governor of Virginia. Governor McAuliffe.
Tweet: Money is policy. Money sets the priorities for the people, so get into the weeds and understand Virginia’s budget inside and out.
I’m honored to be with you. Thank you for having us here. It's quite an honor, and I thank all the great work you and I did when I was governor, you were in the other party, we didn't always agree, but we agreed to disagree, and we agreed to work together for my time in office. I thank you for that.
Thank you. I took your vetoes with big smile on my face.
It was never personal. You know that.
I do.
Governor McDonnell, people might find this interesting and fascinating in this day and age. He and I remain good friends all these years later. When I took office and during the time as Governor Elect, I had no better friend than Bob McDonnell working with me, getting me ready to take office. We remain and have that close relationship ever since. I thank you, Bob, for that great friendship that we have always had. We can be on different parties, but you can still be good friends and I hope that's a message for other people out there. The day after you take office, you've been inaugurated. You've had all the parties
No. Way before, governor. Day after election.
I’ll tell you what I did the day after the election. The first thing I did was reach out to the opposing speaker of the other party, Bill Howell, and I said, “Can I come down and have dinner with you?” It’s the first thing I did. He didn't take me up on the offer, but I do think they appreciated that. The first thing I did was say, “Can I come down and talk about my agenda with you?”
I then proceeded to call every single member of the Republican House of Delegates, and in the Senate. I literally called every one of them and said, “I'm the new governor. I want to work with you. We're from different parties.” I think that helps set a tone. The most important thing also that day after is the process of putting your cabinet together. I just cannot stress to you how important it is to have a great cabinet.
I always prided myself on the great cabinet that I put together. I brought from the other party. I brought in members, it didn't matter. I wanted to get the most qualified people, because when you take office, you're inheriting a gigantic $130 billion budget. You have about 153,000 state employees. It is a massive undertaking. Having key people in those slots to run those different agencies and cabinet departments is really absolutely critical.
The other thing I did is I reached out to all the people who were part of the state government, who were there permanently in the state government who run all the different bureaus and divisions that you have. I reached out to everybody I could. I made hundreds of phone calls a day after the election of the course, of the next 48 to 72 hours.
Tweet: I’ll never be mad at you for trying something new and failing. I’ll only be disappointed if you never try something new at all.
I just set the tone. I'm looking for big things from you. I want you to think big. I want you to think out of the box. I had a meeting every Monday with my cabinet. “I want you to think big, be bold, fight for Virginians every day. I’ll never be mad at you if you try something new and fail. I never will be. I’ll only be a little upset with you if you never try something new.” Those are the three things that I did immediately, and I think served me well through the process.
Surprises Upon Becoming Governor
Thank you. We're going to get to the first 100 days in a minute, however, meanwhile, Governor McAuliffe, you spent decades in the national political scene. From your time with the Clintons to chairman of the DNC, what surprised you the most when you started your term as governor of Virginia Day one in the Patrick Henry building? What was the surprise?
I had a long history. I actually started as Jimmy Carter's National Finance Director when I was 22 years old. I was a kid from Syracuse, New York. I was going to Georgetown Law School. I left law school to go work for Carter's reelect and ended up being the finance director. I stayed working in politics. I always did it as a volunteer. I never took any pay. I loved it. I did a lot of business, started a bunch of companies.
When I got into office, I think what is overwhelming when you sit in that chair that first day, is the complexities of the state government. Just figuring out the acronyms and the names of all of these, just the healthcare, figuring out Medicare, Medicaid, and everything that you have to do on healthcare, it is a mind numbing process.
I agree with Governor McDonnell. The first thing I wanted to get my handle on is the budget. People will find this very strange, but when you get elected governor, you go into office, you inherit the budget that is actually put together and presented by the outgoing governor. It's not even your budget. You have to get a quick handle on that budget. I thank Governor McDonnell because I met when I was Governor Elect, and he said, “What would you like to see added to the budget?”
I was new to state governor. I said, “That's weird. Why is he asking me? I'm the new Governor.” That's just the process that we actually have in Virginia. For me, it's literally gluing the complexities. State Government is a gigantic operation. Just learning all the different names and all the different pieces and how the different agencies function was probably the biggest challenge I faced immediately.
Thank you. Governor McDonnell, Richmond is unique. Relationships run deep. The process is slow. You remember that from your delegate days, although you spent almost two decades between your time in the House of Delegates. As Attorney General, what surprised you when you started your term as governor, now that you're in the Patrick Henry building?
Even with eighteen years in state government and a bunch of federal service in the military before that, I was surprised by the complexity of the budget. I hadn't served on any of the money committees that made those decisions. The committees make those decisions. They'd throw it on your desk, and you got 48 hours to look at it if you're just a regular legislator. That's what I was doing for those eighteen years.
The thousands of decisions you have to make when you're preparing a budget, and then it goes to the legislature. When they finish with it, it comes back and you have thousands more decisions to make on the choices that they've made, on whether you want to approve it, line item B to it, or amend it in some way.
I think the budget still even with all that experience was one. I disagree with you a little bit. The Virginia legislature moves very fast. They pass 900 bills a year. There's usually about 2,500 or so introduced, and probably 60% gets killed, regardless of which parties in power. You do all of that, David, as from your time there, within 45 days or 60 days. The Congress doesn't pass 900 bills, thank God, over a 2- or 3-year period. Neither do most other states that are even full-time legislators.
We move very quickly and we've got a really good session process because you got to balance the budget. You can't go into debt. You don't have these shutdown down problems that we see like in the state and the federal government. You also have a great rule called the Germanist Rule and Single Object Rule. Every bill can only encompass one main thought or one main purpose. We don't have, generally, 3,200 bill page bills, like Obamacare or 1,000 page bills, like the Big Beautiful Bill. We got generally short, concise bills, embracing a concept that can be quickly discerned by the legislature, quickly debated, and then quickly operated on. I like the way the state government works. It's quick, it's neat. Generally, it gets things done on time.
No disagreement at all. The General Assembly is one of the most efficient probably in the world, not just in the United States. I'm very proud of the House of Delegates rules and regulations and how we operate. I was referring to the consensus process. Things in Richmond may take 1 year or 2 or 3 for the for things to get cooked. Remember that sausage making that we talked about?
I remember the Committee Chairman saying, “Delegate McDonnell, your bill is not ripe yet. See you next year.”
You got reenactment clauses.
Role Of Governor's Team & Relationship With Legislature
I hated those. I absolutely hated those. All right, let's follow up on that thought. You’re in. You started with the priorities. You're working on the budget. You got your team in. You have 100 days of going through the session with the general assembly, getting things set. What is the role of your team and what is the real relationship and role with those 100 delegates and 40 senators? I’ll leave it to you. Who wants to go next?
I’ll take a shot at that. Terry and I both agree. Relationships matter. Perhaps, it’s the most important thing. If people like you, they'll listen to you. If they listen to you, they trust you. If they trust you, they'll look for it. It's a pretty simple process that's true in life general for some of your young students that may be reading. We had our legislative staff, our committee, our secretaries. They were in all the committees of the legislature, always ready to speak for or against the bill.
We take a position on many of the bills because they're going to come to my desk anyway if they pass. If we were opposed to it, we'd let people know right up front or suggest an amendment. We try to be helpful to the legislature in that regard. Some committees cared about our opinions, some didn't. That's just the way it works. I think constantly talking, especially between your cabinet secretaries and their corresponding committee chairman on the subject matters of overlap is really important. If you had good relationships there, you'd generally be pretty successful in getting your agenda passed in the legislature.
Governor McAuliffe?
At the end of the day, you can't get anything done if you don't get a bill passed. Working with the legislature is really absolutely critical. Most of the folks did not know me. I would say to most of the Republicans in the General Assembly, they were predisposed to really not want to work with me in a sense that I'd been chairman of the Democratic National Committee. I chaired the Clinton campaigns. I had beaten the Republican Attorney General for governor, all that going into it.
Once you get in office, you're the governor and you want to get bills down, and you have tremendous power. The negotiating and the sausage making of bills process, I absolutely loved. I loved every second of it. I had my legislative team over there every day. Nobody had any illusions of where I stood on a particular issue or a bill. We never played any games. I went and spoke to the Republican caucus, as you remember very well, David, on my first day.
I gave everybody my cell phone number. I said, “I don't want any of you to have any fault. If you got a question for me, pick up the phone.” As I said, I have a motto. Sleep when you’re dead. I usually went until about 1:00 AM and usually got up about 5:00 AM. I said, “You can call me anytime between those hours.” Some of them actually took advantage. I put a huge charm offensive on. I'm the first governor to install a kegerator in the mansion. I bought top shelf booze. I entertained every night. I opened it up to the legislators. I said, “If you want to come over for a drink at any time, come on over.”
I had to build relationships with folks because I didn't know them. I think over time, they realized, “The guy really does care about job creation, economic activity.” We were never going to agree on the issues of choice and many of the social agenda, but on so many of the other issues on transportation, on healthcare and many of those issues on education, we actually agreed on and clear on economic development. For the readers who are not from Virginia, the legislature comes in one year for 90 days, and the next year they come in 60 days. Everybody always advised me when I was governor elect, “You can't wait for the end of session. You see those headlights going out of town.”
I didn't. I missed them. I loved every single day negotiate. It was just my personality. I just loved negotiating. I'd been in politics forever. I understood it. I had a great relationship with a lot of Republicans, David. You included. I had a lot of very quiet meetings, one-on-one, and said, “What do you need? Here's what I need, and you can go out and trash me in the press every single day. I don't care. What do you need?” I’ll tell you what I need. We got a lot of things done, working with committee chairman very quietly, without ever discussing them publicly.
I appreciate him talking about the transition. I felt it was hard duty. I want to see the next governor succeed. You want the executive branch to do well in Virginia. It's the face of Virginia. Terry retained, I think, three of my cabinet secretaries including Rick Brown, finance, which was great because nobody knew the budget better than Rick Brown. I kept him from my predecessor, Tim Kaine. I think you and I did smart things by keeping a great resource and leader like Secretary Brown.
Terry stressed the importance of the relationships he's engaging and he brought people in. That's the same thing that I did. I came after a Democratic governor, Tim Kaine. He came after a Republican governor. It was a changing of the guard, changing of the tide of different culture, different ideas, different governing philosophies. Spending that time building those relationships and finding the common ground early on, I think for both of us, was really helpful.
That is what we described as the Virginia Way, isn't it?
Part of it. Sure.
That is what we describe as a Virginia way. All right. Before we move on to other subjects, any words of wisdom to the 100 members of the house, some new, some that are coming back, 40 members of the Senate? Apolitical advice on moving forward, especially in these turbulent types.
I would say number one, you don't get everything you want in life. Compromise is not a bad word. I did it every single day with my members of my general assembly. “What do you need at the end of the day? Here's what I need at the end of the day.” You go back and forth. Some people get in and say, I got to have 100%. Unfortunately, you see that out in the US Congress. Nothing actually gets done. At the end of the day, you want to get bills passed. You want to help people. I would say to the folks coming in, both parties come together. There are a lot of things that we can work on together that will move Virginia forward.
Thank you. Governor McDonnell?
I'd say number one, don't be like Washington. Washington is fiscally and procedurally broke. That swamp culture has come down to Richmond a little bit. It's not for the better with the really antagonistic debates. Part of it is both houses are one vote apart, 21-19 in the Senate, 51-49 in the House. Nobody can lose a vote if it's party aligned. Philosophical stuff, that's part of it. I'd say a couple things. Number one, you're there to do the greatest good for the greatest number and solve real problems. That was my philosophy. I'm a conservative Republican on fiscal and social issue. I had a governing philosophy that was my filter, or a lens for bills and policies.
The bottom line is, you’ve got to solve problems. There are real problems that the people expect you to solve. It's why they hire you and send you to Richmond and give you a lot of power to do a lot of things. They don't want bills that you just passed. You can have a bumper sticker. I’ve seen a trend on this, David, in the last few years. Some of the legislation in the last couple of years has gotten sloppy, the product coming out of the legislature.
Tweet: The bottom line is, you’ve got to solve real problems. That’s what people expect—it’s why they hire you, send you to Richmond, and give you the power to make change.
I amended so many bills. I had about 150, 160 bills that I would amend, maybe 200 in a given year. Some of it's a byproduct of just some sloppy legislature. That affects people's lives. Liberty, property, freedoms, you can't be sloppy. I think the legislators need to up their game a little bit in the quality of the work they do, even if there's disagreement on ideas. Overall, to me, it's a really good process. The legislative and executive balance of powers is just about where it ought to be.
For the record, those of us who were in the legislature worried about your red pen, Governor McDonnell, because we knew how detailed you are. Even when it was a good piece of legislation, we worried about your amendments. Governor McAuliffe, we worried about your veto red pen because you vetoed a bunch of them at that time, although this current governor had beat your record. We worried about that press release that came with the veto, although you did give us heads up on what you're saying in there.
That's right. I never surprised anybody. We always called you ahead of time.
Redesigning University Board Appointment & Oversight
Let's switch topics to talk about universities. We're all at George Mason. Higher education is important to both of you, I know. It is challenging times for our public institutions. It's no secret that a couple of them, including George Mason, are facing turmoil on the board level. In an apartisan hat, you both placed individuals on universities and state boards during your terms. If you could redesign the board appointment and oversight process from selection to training to staffing, and I’ll share with you some ideas that I wrote in an op-ed, what changes would you implement? Governor McDonnell, no, you can't say that you would not appoint me to the board of George Mason.
That's not a change that you would do. Here are some of the thoughts that I had been pushing for years now as a former board member, as a former legislator. Start by changing the names from boards of visitors to boards of governors. This whole idea of them showing up to visit versus really governing or to watch a football game. It's more than just a board position. It's truly a governing position.
Appoint people with interest in higher education and nexus to the university that they're going to be on. You’ve got to be interested in that university and in higher education overall. I’ve been promoting extensive education and training on the university when they get in. A day or two days at Chev, great. When I was on, Governor McDonnell, we didn't have any of that at all. Now they train them for a day or two, but I don't think it's enough. They need to get on the campus. They need to meet with all the deans. They get to understand how the budget process of the university works.
They need to understand how the staff senate and how the faculty senate work. They got to put in some time. I understand that these are ceos and people are busy, but public service is not easy. I have also been a proponent of hiring them staff. Boards don't have their own staff. They don't even have their own secretary. They use the president's staff. How much oversight and how much of governing can you do when the president set the agenda and you either rubber stamp it?
We end up with really 1 or 2 situations. They either rubber stamp a president or they fight ideologically with the president. Hire an ombudsman. Put somebody in there to work out those differences and be an internal judge of sort. What do you think? What would you do? What would you do differently? What would you advise now going forward, regardless of what you did when you were in office? The floor is open to either one.
Let me just say, first of all, if your readers don't understand the Virginia system, the governor gets six appoints a year at the university. Over the course of your term, you get 24 different appointees that you appoint. Everybody does it differently. Bob and I both had a committee that made recommendations to us. We had a serious group that would then provide us with a list of names, but be very clear, if I wanted someone on a board, they were going to get appointed. It's ultimately my decision at the end of the day.
I took it very seriously. Before I appointed anybody, I called everyone personally of all of them. I made hundreds of phone calls. I explained to them what I expected, that this is a very serious, this is going to your point, David. This is a very serious appointment. This is not a beauty contest. You are there to work. I also said, “You are there to be board governance. You don't run the university day to day. I think at some point, some people thought that they were the university president.”
They said, “That is not your role.” Having been the chairman of over 25 businesses, I understood my role as chairman of a company. It's not the same as the CEO of a company. I wanted people who loved that institution, who were going to get in, who were going to work hard. I was very proud of my appointees at the end of the day. I think changed the name and things like that, that are fine. We did do training for everybody. Everybody went through training before that and most of the universities did their own training for them.
A day and a half is not enough for them to even understand the system.
Adding more to it, I think it is great. I'm sick to my stomach about what I’ve seen happen here in Virginia. Jim Ryan was basically fired. We can call it what we want. The president of the United States is now going in picking people for these universities. I hate to see that. There is independence to these great universities. We are blessed in Virginia. We have the greatest universities in in America. We really do. I just hate to see the federal tinkering on these things, picking presidents. That's not what their role should be. I think very effectively, I took it very seriously. I know Bob did as well. We had recommendations and very proud of the people served with distinction.
Thank you. Governor McDonnell?
I agree with a lot of what Governor McAuliffe said. Just looking at your suggestions, I like the first one, board of Governors because they are there really to govern, but within their sphere, not to micromanage, set the general policy and goals and aspirations of the university. The president runs the university and his staff day to day. That's important to remember. You micromanage and you usually screw things up because you don't have the full expertise and knowledge to do that.
I like your second suggestion about appointing people with ties to the university and interest in higher education. I think most governors do that reasonably well. Most of the people that I appointed on boards were alumni. Certainly, it's almost an article of faith in places like UVA if you don't appoint alumni, but primarily they get a little ranko.
I tell you, what I did is I appointed people who knew how to run businesses and knew how to get the bottom line. My biggest concern when I became governor is I look back the previous 10 years, and on average, the tuition at the universities in the 10 years prior to 2010 when I got inaugurated was a 10% increase in tuition every year at a time when inflation was 2%, 3%, 4%. I thought it was out of control. The burden was all on kids and their parents. They got out of college with 10, 15-year debts. I thought that was completely wrong. I began to do things to ring that, put business people on the board. The other thing that we did Terry, it sounds like you did something like it. You couldn't do it with every board.
You got 4,000 board appointments during your term. Just on the colleges and universities that are running billion-dollar corporations, I had all of them come in. I spoke to all of them as a group. My first word really to them was, “If you're just here to go to football games and eat wine and cheese and rubber stamp the president, we don't need you. I don't need that. If that's your philosophy, please come let me know because I made a mistake. I’ll find somebody else.
I really meant it. Their job really is, as you pointed out, Professor, is to govern but govern at the strategic level, not the tactical and micromanagement level. I think that's the right balance. There are so many things are amplified politically. Terry, I think you'd agree with me these last few years with the standoff and philosophy and standoff in power between the executive and legislative branch that we've seen some of the things that happened.
We had very little of that. Most of my people that I appointed got approved. Terry, I think you’re the same. There are legitimate discussions now about free speech on college campuses. If it's stifled from the right or the left, that needs to get fixed. If you out of control tuition that needs to get fixed. These are things that are legitimate policy discussions for the board.
I agree with Terry. Having the president of the United States or the Department of the executive branch trying to interfere and who's the president of the University of Virginia, I don't see he’s got authority to do that under our federalism principles. They had to stay out of it. Overall, we do have about the best college system in the country and it isn’t that broke. We're doing overall a pretty good job at the executive branch, putting the good people in place.
The only thing I would add, David, on that, it's a hard job. Neither Governor McDonnell or I had a problem picking the Board of Visitors in University of Virginia and Virginia Tech, but there are other colleges and universities that don't have that prominence who really are in financial straits, who really need the governor's appointees to the Board of Visitors to really help give guidance and to help what they need to do. The real challenge was digging deep for a lot of the colleges and universities, finding people who could meet the specific needs of those colleges that don't have that same level that UV and Virginia Tech had. That was a lot of work, honestly.
Economic Growth & Competitive Advantage (Beyond Federal Dependence)
Thank you both. All right. Let's talk a little bit about economic growth and competitive advantage. Governor McAuliffe, you've led the biggest number of international trade missions and you went all over the world and you had Amazon headquarters. Both of you were JOBS governors. Both of you enjoyed high rankings for the state in magazines.
Now, the state is still showing a very high ranking, but I reached out to our Center of Regional Analysis and asked them for some statistics. Even though overall we're still best placed to do business or close to, here are some stats for you. In JOBS, we're number 18, and in real growth state product, we're number 11, per capita income, we're number 8, in manufacturing, we're number 30. I'm not judging. These are actual statistics.
That didn't happen when Bob and I were governors.
I didn't pull your numbers. I didn't pull either one of your numbers. To keep it straight here, I'm talking forward, not backwards. You were challenged, as Virginia still is, by other states, industrial development, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Texas, Alabama. They all challenge us at different times. Now that you're not the cheerleader in chief, what is Virginia needs to change and be more competitive and become less federally dependent? It could be tax policy, regulatory environment, plan use.
Number one, you’ve got to protect the right to work of Virginia. I think it's been a little bit under attack. This isn't partisan. I think it's factual. The Democratic party, at least in the state legislature the last couple of years, has actually tried to unravel right to work, which the Democratic party rightly put in place years ago. No forcing people to join a union in order to get a job. I have great concerns about if Abigail Spanberger is to win. I have great concerns about her policy. I think Governor McAuliffe has a different view of that.
She promised and made statement that she will not sign an appeal of Right to Work. We'll keep this apolitical and we'll stick to your point on Right to Work is important, which I think Governor McAuliffe will even agree with that.
I trust people. I take them with their word. I’ve always done that.
He didn't and wouldn't sign a Right to work when he was governor as well.
I know Terry McAuliffe wouldn't. I'm just saying that this congresswoman sponsored the Pro Act 2 years and voted for it for 4 years.
We're going to keep it apolitical.
Let's get back to you and me.
We're going to keep it apolitical. I am telling you, I have had that conversation personally with Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, and I take her for her word.
I hope you're right.
She will not sign a repeal of Right to Work. Right to Work is one thing that we'll keep, I think we're all in agreement with. What else?
I think you've got to keep a strong Right to Work. Number two, I know what Governor Allen and Governor Gilmore and I, and Governor Youngkin can do to a large degree. Each of us during our time did wholesale on analysis of the regulatory code and regulatory structure to find out which ones were overburdensome that created barriers to entry that were hidden taxes that the people would have to pay for because the regulatory state can get out of control.
These unelected agencies put things in place that cost real business people real money that they pass on to the consumer. I'm very concerned about that. The same with hidden taxes, fees and other things that are all impediments that drive inflation, again, because it's passed on. I think we need to keep our incentives strong. I put a number in place, Terry, you probably did as well when you were governor, to be able to do things. When I was governor, I promoted and signed a data center tax credit.
There's a great example of something that really worked. We wanted to track data centers to Virginia. Of course, now we've got the biggest number of data centers, I believe, in all of the country. Almost too many for some people's liking in Northern Virginia. It's to meet the energy demands now. It's been an absolute boon in local property taxes, not so much employment.
It's these creative ways where we can be competitive, whether you like it or not. There are so many other states, like you mentioned, Georgia, South Carolina, that have these massive credits for everything from manufacture industrial base to film production, etc. We've got such a great climate. We don't need all the money and giveaways to bring businesses here.
We've got to at least be competitive so that the governor's got an ability to provide a right incentive package like I did to bring Hilton Hotels my first year to Virginia, Northrop Grumman to Virginia and other people like Terry did with Amazon. You’ve got to be able to be competitive to do that. If you're not in the game on some of these kinds of things, keeping taxes and regulations low, providing incentives, you're not going to be competitive with other states because it's high competition out there.
Tweet: We’ve got such a great climate that we don’t need huge giveaways to attract businesses. But we do need to stay competitive so the governor can offer the right incentive package.
Thank you. Governor McAuliffe, going forward.
It was unfortunate to see Virginia drop from first in the nation for business to fourth. What really bothered me was the workforce development dropped dramatically in Virginia. That is the key. That is the secret sauce of economic development. I was the most travel governor in US history, 35 trade missions. I brought 2,100 companies back to Virginia from all over the globe. I could tell them, “If you're going to spend millions putting your infrastructure in Virginia, we're going to have a workforce for you.” Nobody's going to spend millions of dollars bringing it to your state unless you can have a workforce for the next 10, 20, 30 years. That was the key. That's why we redid our education system.
We became the number one state for cybersecurity. When I left office, we had 48,000 openings, average salary, $92,000 a year. We are the number one state in America for cybersecurity companies. We redid our education with the first state in America. We teach cybersecurity beginning in kindergarten. It's things like that to attract businesses. You’ve got to make sure infrastructure people that aren't going to come to your state if you're stuck in traffic. That's why I worked hard. I did the I-66, which was the largest P3 in American history.
To open up 66, I did 22 miles at 64, 95, 395 so that people could move because they come and see workers move around. We invested $350 million on our port. We put $320 million in the Virginia International Gateway. For me, it's a complicated topic, but you’ve got to build the infrastructure. You got to make sure transportation, you got to make sure folks can get healthier, quality education.
When you have all that, we're a great state. We have so many assets. Look what we have in Virginia. You have the federal government, which is so important to us with the military intelligence. We've got the ocean. I used to go all over the globe talking about what we have in Virginia. We got the beautiful mountains, we got the ocean. Dolphins come up to the coast, they pick up your children, they give them a ride, they drop them off.
We got it all in Virginia. We got great wineries, crap breweries. There's no reason, I think, for the next governor, for Abigail, but she's got to figure out where. For me, it was cybersecurity. I think AI is the next great frontier for any governor. We became the number one state in America for cybersecurity. I think the next big thing is going to be AI and it's going to be with us for many years to come. Redo your education system. Start teaching cybersecurity beginning in grade school, high school.
Tweet: AI is the next great frontier for any governor. Today, every state in America is focused on cybersecurity, but the next big thing will be AI—and it’s here to stay. We need to rethink and rebuild our education system to keep up.
Keep taxes low. I agree with Bob. Get rid of a lot of unnecessary regulations. He was very proud of that legislature. Of the 900 bills, I would say the beginning of every year, “Why do we need 900 new bills every year? Did that much happen in the last year?” It is what it is. Everybody's got to have bills. Get the regulations so it's not hard for people to do business. Keep your taxes low and make sure the roads work. Airports are going great. I had to work hard. United was leaving Dulles when I was governor. I flew to Chicago, met with the CEO, we gave him $50 million. They stayed. That's the stuff of how you grow your economy. I loved every second of it.
Salesman in chief.
Yes. That’s what your job is. You pat it. I went to Muslim countries and sold our beautiful wine. At the end of the day, they're going to think Napa's an auto parts company.
You didn't take me with you on those trips, the wine trips.
Yeah, it was fun. I had to drink.
I said Napa's for auto parts, but Virginia's for lovers of wine. I said, “You should drink ours.” You go over very well.
I have a beautiful cigar garden outside the mansion. I bring those business folks in. We go out there, we have a little wine or a little whiskey smoke a cigar. That deal was done.
Wisdom For Virginia’s Future Leadership
I remember those days. Since names were dropped and I still want to try to keep it apolitical, so let's do a cross political question. Governor McDonnell, if Abigail Spanberger becomes the next governor, what's your advice to the incoming Democratic governor?
I think it'd be the same as what I just said. Whether it be Republican or Democrat, that advice would be largely the same. I will start off by saying, “You promised my friends you'd not touch Right to Work. I hope you'll stick to it.” That'll be conversation one. The things we talked about before, and I include, I completely overlooked. Terry's exactly right on workforce development. I work with the Hampton Roads Workforce Council. The biggest issue that I hear from employers now isn't even economic development. It's workforce development. If you don't have the skills in your region, particularly in Southeast Virginia where we're a cul-de-sac, we don't have the big federal government base, although some with the military here like Northern Virginia does. The big issue down here was like maritime skill trades, because we've got Huntington Ingles, we've got hundreds of port ship repair companies and so forth.
You've got to have the community colleges, the workforce councils and other funding streams all working together to be able to match the needs of industry with a talent pool within the area. I think that's absolutely critical and we've really not done a great job overall on the strategic planning on workforce development.
Terry mentioned something very important. You’ve got to start this at fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh grade and say, “You can start and make $70,000 a year as a welder.” You can't wait until they're seniors in high school and talk to them about these incredible careers you can have and be a patriot fixing the great Navy ships at Huntington Ingles. These are the things that take a while to do. I would add that to the list of making it a priority and the blue-collar jobs and why that's so important.
Not everybody's made out to or qualified or will get into a good Virginia college. It's about 40%. The other 60% have to be either job ready or career ready. That means great schools and great opportunities for entry-level, really good jobs in the workforce. That's it. The things we've said already, I would even say I'd redouble that without, with Abigail, you don't know people in the legislature on either side of the aisle because you haven't worked with them. You need to spend a lot of time cultivating that relationship. You need to spend weeks, day and night, looking at that budget. You really have to grasp that. You've got to figure out what did, here's what I did.
I went back and cataloged every campaign promise that I made. I bet Terry did something similar, because your words mean things. If you just have talked about things on the campaign trail and you don't follow through, people will lose trust in you very quickly. We took all of them. I was shocked to see that I'd made about 360 promises and we broke them into year 1, 2, 3, and 4. Every one of those years, I was either going to put in a bill sign an executive order, change, a regulation to try to do every one of these.
We got an overwhelming number of those done in one way or the other. I think I'd say be true to your word or you'll lose the faith of the people in the legislature and you won't be an effective governor. I think some of it's just common sense. Having been around the legislature a long time, I know how they work and they want to trust you and believe in your work with you, but you’ve got to earn it.
Tweet: Be true to your word, or you’ll lose the trust of the people and the legislature—and you won’t be an effective governor.
Great advice. Thank you. By the way, I carried the bill to institute internships and apprenticeships in high school when I was there. I totally agree. We're not doing enough on our first development, even that bill. It was fought back then by Chev and others and I think it took them quite a bit before they started implementing it.
Let me say one last quick thing on that. I think the Youngkin administration's done a really good job doing things that we've all talked about, but that is consolidating all the different fiefdoms and silos of workforce training across 6, 7 agencies and now, pretty much got them into one agency, a new workforce development agency that got stood up, provided resources to fund it. What we haven't done is put much money behind it.
As Terry knows, most of the money that we use for workforce development comes from federal money. It's the Federal Workforce Investment and Opportunity Act. We owe funds and the workforce councils our fiscal agents, to spread those around in the region. The very little money has been put in at the state. In fact, the only money that's been put in is really for the maritime skilled trades in in Hampton Roads and a very little money for healthcare workforce infrastructure. The state is not doing its part on this workforce training to be able to get community colleges and businesses and other entities working together to match the demand with the supply of training. We can do a lot better in that, but we’ve got to put a little money behind.
Thank you. Governor McAuliffe. If Winsome Earle-Sears becomes governor, what's your advice for her?
Sure. Let me see if I can out workforce development. I want to give a good shout-out to Governor Ralph Northam. He's the first one to make workforce development actually a cabinet rank official.
He put the money into the maritime one. He is the first one to do it. Absolutely.
Give a good shout-out for that. I would tell if she's the governor-elect Sears, you have just been elected to probably if not the greatest job in the United States of America, being the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia. You think of the history of Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson. It is such an honor. I know I speak for Bob and myself was the greatest honor of our lives, but it literally is the greatest job in the world.
There comes a lot of responsibility, but tremendous amount of power to help people and to lift up the lives of those 9 million Virginians. My main message is you are now the governor of the entire Commonwealth. You're not a Republican. You're the governor for everybody. At that point, when you take that oath and put your hand up, you're there to serve everybody.
I would say this to my cabinet all the time. We're here to help everybody. I tried to go overboard to help those who actually worked to try and beat me because at the end of the day, you're really trying to lift everybody up in parts of the state that didn't support. It didn't matter. You've got to be big and you've got to stand up and represent all Virginians and really put the politics aside.
I'm saying that as someone who's probably the most political effort to be governor. I had been the National party chair. I chaired inaugurations. I had chaired Democratic conventions and so forth. At that point, you're no longer Mr. Democrat. I was the governor. That would be my advice. Whatever happened on the campaign, put that aside. Forget about people who didn't support you. You're all one at that point.
You have huge challenges. I will say this. It's a very unique time to be coming in as governor because Virginia, as you know, with the DOGE cuts that Trump did, they have hurt Virginia. Virginia's number one, Maryland's number two. All of the cuts that have gone on, and the federal contractors who have been cut in specifically up in Northern Virginia, is going to have a ripple effect to our economy. You’ve got to focus like a laser beam on the economy because there are a lot of people who are now out of work who gave their life to this federal government, and they need to be lifted up. We need to provide career opportunities.
The other gigantic challenge is going to be, and that ridiculous Big, Beautiful Bill, now on Medicaid, Virginia is going to lose billions and billions of dollars of healthcare funds. Abigail is going to have to sit and figure out what do we do about all those people who are now losing healthcare. What do we do to fill a hole in the Virginia budget because of what's going on in Washington? The challenges, just because we're the number one state for federal workers, we bear that brunt more than any other state in the United States of America. It's going to be a big challenge. Get ready. A lot of work ahead.
I can speak to both of you for another hour or two, but we're not going to. Let's close it out. Two quick questions. Governor McAuliffe and Governor McDonnell, what, in your opinion, was the best thing your successor or your predecessor has done here? Governor McAuliffe, what's the best thing that Governor McDonnell did in office and Governor McDonnell, what do you think Governor McAuliffe did the best thing when he was in office?
Bob did a great job, number one, in recognizing that returning citizens should get their right to vote. I think also he did a magnificent job on the whole issue of foster care and helping those children. Those two things just come to my mind just like that.
Thank you. Governor McDonnell?
I think Terry McAuliffe was a remarkable JOBS governor. I had the bumper sticker and he delivered in such a big way. We were coming out of a period after the 2008, 2009, ‘10 fiscal crisis that gripped the nation. We started the rebuilding, but Terry took it to a whole new level with his very aggressive, energetic travel around the world, being a champion for Virginia. The JOBS you heard is an eloquent summary of why Virginia is such a great state.
Tweet: You’ve got to focus like a laser beam on the economy. Many people who dedicated their lives to the federal government are now out of work—they need to be lifted up, and we need to provide new career opportunities.
He promoted that all over the world, got people to believe in it and had significant records and capital investment, job creation. At the end of the day, if a governor can do that, then you have people that can find a job and opportunity and take care of themselves and the family, and they don't have to depend on government.
You have people that recognize that they've got access to the American dream, regardless of whether they're Black, White, rich, poor Republican, Democrat. They've got equal access to this dream because the governors have to open up doors for them. I don't think there's much better thing that a governor can do. I think Governor McAuliffe used every relationship, friendship, ally he had to be able to open doors and sell Virginia, and did a really fine job.
I love the Virginia Way. Final question. Your advice to our readers, students, alums, citizens, fellow staff and the employees and professors at George Mason. If there was one thing, one policy issue that is apolitical that you would advise them to engage on in the next year, not necessarily within the election. By the time we publish this, election would've been much closer. What is that important that serves all that you would challenge people to get engaged on?
Are you talking nationally?
Virginia.
I'd say there's a broader issue, and that is it's timely and that is we really need to teach young people not just to use their brilliance for rote memory, but to think critically and then use that critical thinking to find the best ways to serve the greatest number of people. It's been evident to me studying leadership now for 50 years that the people that are the greatest leaders are the servant leaders, the people that care about others that are energetic about the customer and the employee and the stockholder and others, but not about themselves. That great book, Good to Great by Jim Collins, said this. “Humility is actually the cardinal virtue.”
I'd really love to see universities get more engaged in teaching professors something important to you, civics and citizenship. Part of that is act of participation in the democracy. The next step in that is do good stuff for other people, whether you're in government or out of government. Part of the reason America is such a great country revered around the world is our generosity and our volunteerism. We give more time, talent, treasure for aid than any other country on Earth if you look at cumulative over the years. It only takes one generation to forget that ethos of service to others, giving humility, critical thinking. I'd like to see universities just as generally embrace that and teach more of that in the classroom.
Thank you, Governor McDonnell. I know you know how close to my heart our civics and citizenship issuers are with my American story and my immigration story and my families. Governor McAuliffe, the last word is yours, sir. What is your one issue that you want people to engage on that helps America overall?
I'd like people to get back to where they respect one another. Forget all these slogans. Make America Great Again. We are great. Our nation is great. You look at the experiment of democracy. We're the greatest democracy in the world. Unfortunately, there's just too much divisiveness out there. The social media is driving it every single day. We’ve got to get back to a place where you can respectfully disagree, but respect one another.
You've seen it here with Governor McDonnell and I. We disagree on a lot of issues, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends. I try to implore young people every single day, we’ve got to get the negativity and the hatred. This is not a Game of Thrones fight every single day on every single issue. We’ve got to come back to the Comedy of America and who we are and the great nation we are, and the things that we do around the world.
We are so beloved, we are so respected. It's unfortunately being challenged now, but it's up to the young people to take us to that next level. It's really important that people learn to work together, respect one another, love one another, and move together. When we do that, great things happen. Getting along with one another and respecting one another, one thing, listen to people, respect people, listen to other people's opinions.
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Your Excellencies. It's been a pleasure and an honor, and I’ll see you in the classroom.
Thank you.
You bet.
Important Links
About Governor Robert F. McDonnell
Governor McDonnell began his career in public office representing the 84th District in the Virginia House of Delegates, where he served seven terms from 1991 to 2006. He was elected Virginia Attorney General in 2005 and was inaugurated January of 2006. In November 2009 he was elected the 71st Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia with the most votes of any candidate in history at the time, serving from 2010 to 2014.
He also served 4 ½ years of active duty in the United States Army and 16 years in the United States Army Reserves, retiring as a Lieutenant Colonel in 1997. After active military service, he worked for the Fortune 500 Company American Hospital Supply Corporation as an operations manager. He began his legal career in 1990 as a Virginia Beach prosecutor, and was later a partner with the law firm of Huff, Poole, and Mahoney.
Currently, he teaches law and government at Regent University and is also a Distinguished Professor at George Mason University and Liberty University. Additionally, he is the president and founder of the McDonnell Group, a firm that focuses on consulting and business development. He has rejoined the Virginia Beach law firm, Poole, Brooke, Plumlee PC. He is also a regular contributor on Newsmax T.V., and a member of the Board of Directors of Delta Star, Inc.
Governor McDonnell has a BBA in management from the University of Notre Dame, an MSBA from Boston University, and a JD and MA from Regent University. He is the leader of the racial reconciliation group, Virginians for Reconciliation, and on the Boards of the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce, Virginia Beach Sister Cities Association, and the Samaritan House Foundation. He has served in various political leadership roles as Chairman of the National Republican Platform Committee (2012), and as Chairman of both the Republican Attorneys General Association (2008) and the Republican Governors Association (2011-2012). He has 5 adult children and 8 grandchildren.
About Governor Terry McAuliffe
Terry McAuliffe, 72nd Governor of Virginia
In November 2013, Terry McAuliffe was elected the 72nd Governor of Virginia.
As Governor, McAuliffe focused on equality for all Virginians, enhancing quality of life, and building a new diversified economy that made economic opportunity a right, not a privilege.
To keep Virginia competitive, McAuliffe implemented major economic development initiatives designed to strengthen the Commonwealth’s pro-business climate, ensure efficient investment in world-class infrastructure and develop a 21st century workforce capable of meeting the needs of emerging businesses and industries.
As Governor, McAuliffe conducted a record 35 trade missions to dozens of countries, personally delivering Virginia’s calling card to business leaders around the globe. As a result, hundreds of thousands of jobs were created and more than $20 billion in capital investment to communities across the Commonwealth, which was billions more than any previous governor. He oversaw the unemployment rate dropping from 5.4% to 3.6% and initial unemployment claims fell to a 44 year low. Personal income rose 12.3% during his term of office.
Protecting the rights of all Virginians was always a top priority for McAuliffe. He successfully vetoed a record 120 bills that would have taken Virginia backwards. In doing so, McAuliffe protected women’s access to health care, Virginia’s world-class education system, the environment, the integrity of our electoral system and kept more guns off the streets.
He made unprecedented progress on the restoration of civil rights to rehabilitated felons who had completed their sentences and paid their debt to society. During his tenure, McAuliffe restored the rights of more than 173,000 Virginians, more than any other governor in U.S. history.
During the McAuliffe administration, the Department of Juvenile Justice reduced its population in state-operated Juvenile Correctional Centers by nearly two-thirds. Virginia achieved the lowest adult recidivism rate in the nation in 2016 and maintains that position today.
The youngest child growing up in a middle-class family, McAuliffe has been a lifelong entrepreneur. At age 14, he started a business paving driveways for neighbors and local businesses. Since then, he has worked with and led dozens of businesses in diverse sectors of the economy helping to improve companies and create economic opportunity.
He currently serves as a Distinguished Visiting Professor at the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University and a Visiting Fellow at Georgetown University McCourt School of Public Policy.
McAuliffe and his wife Dorothy were married in 1988. They have five children.